Lisa Notes: In the pain, is God still good?

In the pain, is God still good?

Adversity is not a discipline we undertake ourselves, but is imposed on us by God as a means of spiritual growth.

As Hebrews 12:10 says, “God disciplines us for our good, that we may share in his holiness.” The purpose of the discipline of adversity, then, is to make us more holy.
- JERRY BRIDGES, The Discipline of Grace

Is God good?

I don’t want to complain. But sometimes I complain anyway. ~~I can’t help it.~~

I cave in to the temptation to think God isn’t as good as he could be.

Because if God is so good, why doesn’t he lift the veil of depression off my friend who cries out to him for help? Why doesn’t he give clearer direction to a group of his people who are sincerely trying to please him but don’t know which steps to take next? Why doesn’t he remove the pull of addiction from those who long to be released from it, for his own glory?

For crying out loud, why doesn’t he at least provide minimal food for the starving children in Africa?

And in a more personal matter, why doesn’t he make my back pain go away?

He can. He can do all of the above. Without the tiniest drain on his power. With or without human help.

But he hasn’t.

Purpose in pain

And therein lies the greatest struggle many have with believing in him.

In the last chapter of The Discipline of Grace, Jerry Bridges tackles this topic. How does grace meet adversity?

He starts off by saying the discipline of adversity is itself a sign of grace: “God’s discipline, which comes to us in the form of adversity or hardship, is an indication of His loving care, not a token of His disfavor.”

He’s more bold than I am in claiming God indeed delivers the hardships himself. (I still have questions, even after reading this book three times.) But because he believes God’s hand is in every hardship we encounter, it makes him more accepting that there is purpose.

And maybe that’s the saving factor for me, too. That’s what keeps me from turning away from God in anger. If there is—can be—a REASON for all this (regardless of its source), then I can deal with it and still see God as good.

Because I can take pain much better when I know it has a purpose.

All hardship of whatever kind has a disciplinary purpose for us. There is no such thing as pain without a purpose in the life of a believer.

This does not necessarily mean a particular hardship is related to a specific act or habit of sin in our lives.

It does mean that every expression of discipline has as its intended end conformity to the likeness of Christ.

So the purpose is? To make us more like Christ.

Be like Christ

I want to be like Jesus, accepting that God is loving me by allowing my pain. That I can trust him so much that I don’t complain about it. That he can use my pain as fuel for more faith, not less, in his goodness.

That’s who I want to be. I’m not there yet.

But maybe the grace in pain is what will get me there like nothing else will.

It’s brought me this far already and it’s been worth it for the ways I’ve already seen God and know his love for me.

I don’t choose my adversities (for the most part). What I can choose is how I’ll respond (for the most part; I have to depend on him).

If I want to glorify God in my pain,

I will show grace to others in their pain the way he’s shown grace to me in mine,
I will thank him for the grace he’s given me thus far and trust more grace is always on the way, and
I will think of him as good—very, very good—even when I don’t understand.

Is that enough purpose for pain?
That’s enough. For today.
May his grace be sufficient.

But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
2 Corinthians 12:9

* * *

Maybe that’s not exactly what Bridges is saying at the conclusion of The Discipline of Grace, but maybe he’d agree.

More discussion of chapter 13 at Challie’s

My chapter summaries

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Kathleen Jaeger · 648 weeks ago

Pain and 'is God good?' -- often come together to question our beliefs about God. Though I have not read this book, I have read Problem of Pain by C.S. Lewis and Where is God When it Hurts by Philip Yancey. Yet, in my own experience it really came down to faith. Do I believe that God is in control? That He is really Sovereign? Then, if He is Sovereign, is He good? Is He good in spite of the pain? "Faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things unseen." When life is hard and I cannot see that God is good in my circumstances, then it takes faith to believe that He is good.

Thanks for the good food for thought, Lisa! It resonated with me.
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Lisa notes 103p · 648 weeks ago

Your paragraph is a great little post in itself. I appreciate you typing out your thoughts. I have read both those books in the past and found them to be very helpful. They're definitely ones I could recommend heartily to someone in the midst of suffering. Thanks for sharing!
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Dolly@Soulstops.com · 648 weeks ago

Dear Lisa,

I am sorry to hear about your back pain; chronic pain can be discouraging, and takes an extra measure of His grace to persevere...Like you, I find great comfort in knowing that my pain has a purpose because God uses it to refine me, and to also draw me closer to Him, plus give me greater compassion for those who suffer...plus it helps clarify my theology...

Praying God continues to give you grace to rest in His good purposes when it is hard...Thank you for your honest post pointing back to God...appreciate it.
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Lisa notes 103p · 648 weeks ago

"...plus it helps clarify my theology..." I so agree, Dolly. Thanks for your prayers for God's good grace. I do appreciate them.
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floyd 60p · 648 weeks ago

As much as I dislike the pain and tough times, God has always granted me grace and understanding through them, sometimes for me and mine, sometimes for others, but their is always a purpose... even if I don't get it at the time. I'm with you. You're not alone that's for sure, none of us like the process.
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Lisa notes 103p · 648 weeks ago

Good point, Floyd: we don't always get it at the time...and none of us like the process. But during pain is often when we grow the most, right? I still won't volunteer for pain if I don't have to, but I want to keep making peace with it instead of seeing it as just one more enemy.
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Christina · 648 weeks ago

Oh I love Jerry Bridges! My accountability group did that book a couple of years ago. I still refer back to it. Right now we are doing another one of his books. Such a hard topic but an important one for us to understand and take hope in the greater work He is doing. Blessings!
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Lisa notes 103p · 648 weeks ago

I am a late-comer to Jerry Bridges myself. I finally started reading his books just a couple years ago, but haven't stopped since. He writes with such depth and clarity. This book in particular has been a great study for me. I'm sure doing it with an accountability group was a growing experience.
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elizabethfstewart 38p · 648 weeks ago

I've always been told that God permits adversity, but never causes it. Some scriptures seem to indicate otherwise. Regardless, it's all filtered through Him somehow, right? So, it's meant for our good. I too have a chronic pain issue, and haven't really figured out the good part yet! :)
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Lisa notes 103p · 648 weeks ago

I still haven't figured that out either, so I appreciate your conclusion that regardless of whether or not God causes adversity, he's still handling the situation for our ultimate good and his glory. Sorry you have a pain issue, too. :-(
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Lynn Severance · 648 weeks ago

Lisa - good post and some thought provoking questions are posed.

Into each of our lives, adversity will come for we are part of the human journey.

I am not so quick to say that those with more adversity are thus, more in need of God's discipline ( an implication I read here in Bridges' quotes). That we can grow through adversity, grow closer to the One who helps us through them or if not through, then strength when they stay, is a given.

I'd say there is a difference between weakness and adversity. "That his power is made perfect in my weakness" - ongoing goal - would speak to many areas of weakness that may not be adversity but areas that need spiritual attention. Adversity is something that I interpret as being the suffering, physical, emotional and non-relenting that either we or others experience. Children starving in Africa is an adversity in their lives but not a weakness ( to give an e.g. of what I mean )

This whole area needs careful interpretation that only each of us can come to - a balance - or else God can be seen as one out to "get us" rather than the One who walks with us and within us to draw us closer to Him.
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Lisa notes 103p · 648 weeks ago

I'm always glad when you chime in, Lynn, and especially on this issue, because I see you as one of the experts on it (although I wish you hadn't had to live through the qualifications for it!).

As such, you picked up on Bridges' implications of cause and effect quicker than I did. It does indeed sound like he's making that case; I don't know if the paragraph needs more context here to grasp his fuller meaning, or if indeed that is what he means.

But regardless of his meaning (and my apologies to him if I'm botching it!), the discussion is needed and I agree with you that we cannot imply those with more adversity were more in "need" of his discipline than those without. If that were the case, we'd have no issues with "why do bad things happen to good people?". But obviously we do take issue with that.

I also appreciate your differentiation between weakness and adversity. Your example of starving children is fitting.

These kinds of discussions help me. How we think of God affects our faith and its outworkings, and I want to continue refining my faith based on truths, not just what I *want* to believe. And I work this out best in community. Thanks for being part of my community, Lynn.
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Kati · 648 weeks ago

Hi Lisa... this is an issue I've struggled with a lot in the past year, or years. And it has kind of come to a head this year because I have so many beloved friends in Syria who don't know God, and seeing what is happening around them is not drawing them closer to God... quite the opposite. They ask me how can God be God and be good and let these things happen, and I have no answer. For my own personal growth in Jesus, the answers you gave above are very helpful (thanks!), but it would just sound trite and uncaring to tell my friends that as bombs fall around them. If you have any advice for me I'm all ears!
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Lisa notes 103p · 648 weeks ago

Oh, Kati. You have dealt with so many front-line battle issues and this one is huge. I totally see what you're saying: one set of answers seems sufficient for those of us in relative peacetime conditions (I definitely see myself here), yet are they enough when times get incredibly tougher?

In theory, yes--if they're based on truth, yet who among us has that truth totally worked out?

But how does it work out practically for those in the worst of worst conditions like your friends? Cliché answers are inadequate. We know intellectually that Jesus offers compassion and presence and hope for a better future to come, but for those who can't see or feel him for whatever reason, they need tangible expressions of love, of grace, in the real moments of pain. I know you've given those when you've been able.

I pray for peace in hearts and lands and among people. And for more believers like you who wrestle with hard questions over how to help in real ways, and who alert us to those same hard questions that we need to be wrestling with, too.

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Debbie · 648 weeks ago

These are words that we need to hear especially with so much of a "name it and claim it" mentality that is out there. God has purpose in our pain. We are to glorify Him in our pain. He is making us more like Christ.
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Lisa notes 103p · 648 weeks ago

Thanks, Debbie. I agree that the "name it, claim it" philosophy needs to be countered with the truth that God does allow pain. No matter how much we want to believe ourselves out of hardship, we are at the mercy of the Father, who knows best, even when we don't understand. Still trying to work all that out from my head down to my heart.
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emilytwierenga 46p · 648 weeks ago

oh lisa, this is such a huge topic but you handled it with such grace. i pray, friend, for your back pain, that God might take it away, but also, until he does, that he might sustain you with hope and strength. love you so much.

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Lisa notes 103p · 648 weeks ago

Thanks for praying for my pain, Emily. It is nice having prayer warriors all over the internet. I continue to pray for you and your boys and the pain that comes with more transitions. Hope and strength for you too, sweet friend.
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