Lisa Notes: Why your man might hate church

Why your man might hate church

Male and female participation are roughly equal in Judaism, Buddhism, and Hinduism.

In the Islamic world men are publicly and unashamedly religious—often more so than women.

Of the planet’s great religions, only Christianity has a consistent, worldwide shortage of male practitioners.
DAVID MURROW, Why Men Hate Going to Church

We’re coming up on one of the three days of male church obligation: Christmas Eve, Easter, and Mother’s Day.

I hope your man doesn’t hate church or feel obligated to go. Let’s get that out of the way.

Why do they hate going?

But just in case he does, here are a few reasons why, according to David Murrow in Why Men Hate Going to Church:

I don’t have time.
Church doesn’t work for me.
It’s boring.
It’s irrelevant to my life.
I don’t like the pastor.
It’s too long.
They ask for money too much.
It’s for wimps.
There are too many hypocrites there. (most popular)

I wasn’t sure this would apply to my church. We appear highly male-oriented to me. Most of our committees are headed by men, filled with men, and executed by men. Almost all our teen and adult classes are taught by men (exceptions are the all-ladies classes). All the major decisions are made solely by men. Only men are allowed to speak up front.

But when I took the Guy Friendly Test, my church ended up ranking much lower than I expected. Why? If I often feel oppressed as a woman, how could we not be guy friendly?

Men don’t like this

Well, we do hold hands across the aisle periodically. We often have a “hug your neighbor” time. We don’t strongly state our mission or use the language of risk or danger or death like Jesus did. We use a “family” metaphor more than a “kingdom” one. Some might say we don’t focus on quality or innovation in our services. We don’t regularly provide “men projects” (compared to opportunities to cook meals for the sick or attend baby showers). Our services often go long. Our classes are typically geared to the academia-type who delight in exegesis and lectures.

Hmmm.... Have we overly-feminized the church?

Murrow says,

Women are just better at “doing church” than men are, because the rules of church favor women. The natural abilities that help a person become a star in church can be summed up in three words: verbal, studious, and sensitive.

But research proves that churches lacking in strong male leadership are typically not strong churches at all.

Once a church’s adult attendance is 70 percent female, you can write its obituary. …

Men have been less interested in the Christian faith for centuries. Men have had the pulpit; women have had the pews.

What to do

Murrow suggests women do masculine, but men don’t do feminine.

So help your church become more welcoming to men; it will benefit the men and the women. But how, and especially how without hurting the women?

Consider men’s needs when planning.
Let men gather without women around.
Step back and let men lead.
Do not belittle men or act spiritually superior.
Stop sending signals that church is just for women.
Encourage leaders to dream big enough to tap into God’s power.

He also suggests valuing what he labels the “the most important valuable spiritual discipline for today’s men: the discipline of friendship. … The men who stay faithful to God are those who walk closely with other Christian men.”

What do you think?

I’m not finished processing this yet; I’m not sure what I think.

I’d love to hear from you about your church experiences.
What do the men in your life think about going to church?
Good things, bad things?

* * *

7 reasons why I still go to church
5 things that make a good church day
3 pieces of advice to a new Christian

Thanks to Book Sneeze for the review copy of this book.

Comments (21)

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moonsview 2p · 701 weeks ago

My health keeps me from large crowds, but I do allow my wife to attend church and she allows me to stay home!

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Lisa notes 103p · 701 weeks ago

Sounds like a good arrangement to me. :-)
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Hazel Moon · 701 weeks ago

The church I attend is small and semi-formal. The services are short to my liking with a fellowship time afterwards with coffee and snacks. Our pastor is Lutheran and preaches a good gospel, and both men and women have a part in the service. Women make the announcements and take Birthdays and I often share one of my stories during the Joy's and Concerns time. My husband does not attend, but he allows me to participate. He worships at home.
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Lisa notes 103p · 701 weeks ago

Your church sounds like it meets a nice balance. I'd love to have more of those elements in my own church but maybe in time...
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michellederusha 35p · 701 weeks ago

My husband is the person who got me to start going to church, so I guess we don't fit the stereotype! This is really interesting, though...I guess I wouldn't have assumed much of what the research indicates here. Thanks for opening my eyes to an interesting issue, Lisa.

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Lisa notes 103p · 701 weeks ago

Maybe it's a good thing to not fit this stereotype, Michelle. :-) I'm still trying to sort it all out too.
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bekahcubed · 701 weeks ago

Very interesting. I've never really quite understood the "guys don't want to go to church" thing, mostly because I've been blessed to have wonderful godly men in my life. Particularly, my dad was (and still is) eager to be at church, moved in worship, enthralled by the Word, and devoted to the Gospel.

The church I go to now sounds rather like your church, in that it is strongly male led (with male pastors, elders, worship leader, teachers, etc.) We still have plenty of women--and women who are active--but the men definitely stand out in the service and elsewhere.

Yet if a long sermon and being intellectually-focused is supposed to turn men away... I don't know how we keep our men. We like theologically-rich song lyrics, 45 minute minimum sermons, and a robust Christian education program. We even have a "Pastor for Leadership Development" whose job is teaching throughout the week (rather than simply on Sunday mornings during "big church.")

I know at least one man who eagerly comes for church and Sunday Bible School and mid-week theology courses whose wife is less than eager to do the same.

The culture of our church seems to be that manly men love God and love His word. Our pastors and elders and teachers model that--and mentor the other men in the same.

So, long story short, I think I'm not sure what I think either.
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Lisa notes 103p · 701 weeks ago

From how I'm interpreting the book, the author does acknowledge there is a breed of man who thrives on our traditional ways of doing church, but that he's the minority. ? I don't know....

I think he would be most strongly encouraged by your statement that in your church culture "manly men love God and love His word." And that your leaders model that. That seems to be the thrust of his book--he doesn't want to turn God into only appealing to wimpy men, but to be seen for the true powerful, awesome God that he really is--and one that appeals to "manly men" too.

Thanks for sharing about your church. It helps.
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Sheila · 701 weeks ago

I'm embarrassed to admit this, but it's been ages since we've been to church. My husband HATES going, most especially for that hug your neighbor thing. I'm a off-the-charts introvert and that's a huge issue for me too. Don't make me hug people, or make small talk in the middle of services. We keep hoping to find a church that doesn't do that, but it seems like every one around here does.
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Lisa notes 103p · 701 weeks ago

Thanks for being so honest here, Sheila. I'm not crazy about the "meet-your-neighbor" thing either, truth be told. I do it, but it's because I'm forcing my introverted self to go along with the program. ;-) Granted, I'm usually glad when I do--so I can't quite explain why I dislike it, but I'm also glad when it's over.

But for men, yeah, it can be counter-cultural for sure. At least women have a more natural inclination to hugging other women but men don't do that in normal settings. Your husband (and maybe you too) would probably fit into the kind of church that this book recommends.

I pray that you will find a place where your family can be spiritually nurtured and be comfortable worshiping in.

I'm glad you're still hanging with us on the Romans 8 memory challenge!
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barbarah 65p · 701 weeks ago

I've never thought of "academia-type who delight in exegesis and lectures" as a feminine trait, maybe because the church that perhaps had the most significance in our married lives was full of males like that since we lived near a Christian college and had its Bible professors for pastors and teachers. My husband prefers that to what might seem more masculine "getting after 'em" preaching.

He would always go to church as a matter of principle, but he doesn't like what he calls the "touchy-feely" music in our church, preferring old hymns.

I don't know if the book covers this, but men don't do friendships like women do. My husband would never go to a gathering of males where they discuss they're feelings and how they're doing. He has enjoyed men's prayer breakfasts and work days, but our current church has neither of those. People are either hired to do work around the church or asked quietly. I don't know the reason for that -- I know he has been to work days at churches in the past that aren't organized, a couple that were downright dangerous, and some where the quality of work hasn't been good. But it seems there should still be ways to have group projects like raking leaves, etc., rather than outsourcing those. But then again, maybe men feel they don't have time for things like that.
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Lisa notes 103p · 701 weeks ago

You make a valid point about the academia-type: is it really feminine per se? I think the author was alluding to the fact that more girls than boys are better at sitting still, paying attention, reading aloud, etc--things we tend to associate with school. Whereas men are more the "do-ers"--using chainsaws and things like you mentioned your husband does. I know my husband much prefers to doing service projects than sitting in a classroom, although he does both.

Your husband seems to be in the majority (according to the book anyway!) of not preferring the "touchy-feely" music. Murrow said it can make men feel uncomfortable to sing love songs to another man (even when that man is Jesus) and they relate more to the soldier-type hymns that are about advancing the kingdom, etc.

The book did cover the friendship thing. That was really a crucial part toward the end. I think your husband (and mine) fits the analysis too--they don't want to sit in a circle and share their feelings (I, however, love that. ha).

I appreciate you sharing your thoughts. I imagine all this will be rattling around in my brain now for awhile. I already took a headcount in my last Wednesday night class out of curiosity to check out the male-female ratio. Males outnumbered the females easily, which bucks the book's trend, but the count didn't account for the females that were teaching children's classes in other rooms so I can't say it was truly a scientific sample. ;-)
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laura · 701 weeks ago

I live with one of those guys. This book sounds very interesting and it might even help my man to read it. He was instrumental in starting a Contemporary service at our church because of how uncomfortable he was in the traditional one. Yet, still, he can rail against some of the institutions. Very interesting, Lisa.

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Lisa notes 103p · 701 weeks ago

I hear that men really appreciate the book because they can relate to it so much; your husband might be one of those. There is a complementary book for women "How Women Help Men Find God" but I hear it basically repeats the same material so it's not necessary to read both books.

I'm letting it simmer in my head right now as I become more "mindful" :-) of things in my own church... Interesting, for sure!
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Nancy · 701 weeks ago

Our church was 289.9, taking into account that I don't know all the answers exactly, and we have just called a new music minister who will start in January.

We have a weekly Men's prayer group and a monthly Men's prayer breakfast, as well as a group of Builders who do home repairs and construct handicap ramps.
Men are in the leadership of many if not most of the committees.
We do hold hands across the aisle at the end of the service, and "meet and greet" with handshakes usually, but hugs allowed. I don't know how the men feel about that; I haven't heard any complaints.
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Lisa notes 103p · 701 weeks ago

Hey, if there are no complaints, that's probably a good sign. :-) Murrow predicted anywhere in the 300's is probably a happy place for men so you're right at it. I scored my church at 194, but I'm not banking on it being accurate (I do have a woman's perspective, after all). Maybe I should get my husband to do it too and see how much our numbers vary....might be interesting.

My husband would LOVE the group of Builders. What a wonderful ministry for your men as well as for those benefiting from their work.
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floyd · 701 weeks ago

I'd like to give a personal opinion, if it steps over the line or offends anyone delete it, that's not my intention.

Our society as a whole, has beat men about the brow since before we were born to control our emotions. Rightfully so I might add. All human beings have emotions, men just express their fear different than women. So for over 50 years society has been forcing men to hide their emotions, take them underground. When men feel angry, scared, disrespected, unloved, cheated, shortchanged, or any other emotions that are natural to all of us, we've been told to be a good man, shut up, keep it inside.

On the other side of that coin, in an effort to bring equality to a society that so desperately needed it, that same society encouraged women to express their emotions.

During the course of this needed change something happened; we've stripped men of their masculine nature. Society and a secular world have said there is no emotional difference to men and women, only body parts.

I wonder what the world would think now if a man got up and flipped over the tables of the money changers in the courts surrounding our churches? Even if it was for purely Biblical reasons?

Men now live in fear of making a mistake. They've been beat down for so long their only form of control is that; not going to church. I can almost hear a man say to himself, "You might get your way pretty much all the time, but not this time"! "Hug strangers"! - "Not a chance"!

We have a society of walking time bombs, even in our churches. It's time we let men be men, let them express themselves in honesty and not bash them for it. It's become acceptable for women to express themselves in honesty, but when a man does it, it's usually when he's walking out the door, of either his home or his church...

From the "Love And Respect" series, I forget the guys name, but he had a great point. Biblically speaking, God never commanded a man to respect his wife, He knew loving would be the man's shortcoming. Likewise, God never commanded a women to love their man, He knew respecting would be her shortcoming. God commands men to love their wives and women to respect their husbands. If we all practiced that, it would be a rebirth in our country and church.

Sorry for rambling, I do so with all due respect.
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Lisa notes 103p · 701 weeks ago

I was hoping you would chime in, Floyd. I wanted to hear your male perspective. And it's very valid indeed. Have you read this book, because you make many of his points. :-) Let men be men; let women be women--don't force either into roles they weren't designed to fill.

I actually was thinking about the Love and Respect stuff in relation to this too. Men want/need to be respected for their OWN ways of worshiping; they shouldn't have to conform to feminine ways. At the same time, women don't need to be intimidated if men don't understand how we worship. In a healthy church there should be room for both.

I pray that we all will find our sweet spot both in church and outside of it. Thanks for saying what was on your mind. Everyone's opinions are interesting to me.

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Jennifer Dougan · 701 weeks ago

Thanks, Lisa, for organizing this info and the links. The "guy friendly" test sounds intriguing. As someone who used to work on staff at churches for years, this is a discussion that offices talk about, pray about and strive to work on.

Jennifer Dougan www.jenniferdougan.com
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Lisa notes 103p · 701 weeks ago

It's good to hear that this discussion is on-going in probably lots of places. You would definitely have a good insider's perspective, Jennifer. My sister-in-law used to work in a church office, and it gave her a new appreciation for more of the behind-the-scenes stuff.
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Jeremy Davis · 680 weeks ago

Murrow got a lot of things right in his book, but there is also a lot he missed. The book deals with all the surface issues and does not address the root causes.

I direct a project called Church Without Balls. We just launched our youtube channel and will be dealing with the deep issues through funny videos and follow-up coaching sessions. Partnering with me in this endeavor is my Dad Rev. Dr. Woody Davis, whose research was instrumental in Murrow's book (the first citation is on page 7, I believe). Check us out and tell us what you think - more coming soon: http://www.youtube.com/user/ChurchWithoutBalls
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